Jesus, Son of Joseph and a Family Tomb
March 5th, 2007 by Stephen
Keith Schooley has an interesting article on his blog about a new documentary (presumably released in the US as I have heard nothing about it here) about the supposed discovery of Jesus’ family tomb.
Keith argues for a presuppositional viewpoint - that clearly the claim must be false, because we know that the tomb was empty. On the other hand, his article links to Ben Witherington’s analysis which includes some very interesting comments looking at the claims in terms of actual likelihood, using among other things some statistical analysis.
The point is that this tomb is no more likely to belong to Jesus of Nazareth than the discovery of a grave in the UK of a William married to a Mary might indicate that this is the grave of William of Orange.
The problem is that these are common names.
But could we even entertain the possibility that this could be Jesus’ tomb? Should we do so?
Well clearly Keith has a point that we really shouldn’t bother. But how would we convince an atheist who presented this as evidence? Let us suppose that we felt it necessary to provide an answer to such a person, then apart from all the statistical evidence, we must also deal with both additional names that we know nothing about and the absence of others. We must also explain why the family tomb of Jesus of Nazareth is in Jerusalem, and with how the body of Christ that was known to have vanished managed to turn up, and then (if the disappearance were a hoax, why they saw fit to inscribe his name on an ossuarie).
But most of all, we know that the Jesus ossuarie was not actually found in this tomb! (and there is doubt about the inscription).
So really this whole story falls apart on close inspection (as described on the blogs I have linked to). Were an atheist to raise this argument, we could give it short shrift.
And that is a good thing, because when looking at the claims of Christianity, it is the ressurection of Jesus that is the "elephant in the room". Christ’s resurrection is central to Christianity both because of what it achieves, and because it is God’s affirmation of Christ’s ministry. It is central because it does not matter what evidence atheists bring to bear on the creation account, the old testament narratives or anything else: if Christ was raised from the dead then he is Lord indeed.
And it is central because there are no other plausible explanations for the events of the first century. How a world could be transformed by people willing to die for their belief in a God who had died in shame but risen again in glory.
So maybe we should discuss this family tomb, because it allows us to discuss the death and ressurection of Christ. And that can only be a good thing.
Hi, Stephen,
Thanks for the link. The Discovery Channel special does indeed appear to be a US thing; I’ve read somewhere that there was a British programme on the same topic a few years ago; the new one adds in the stuff about statistical analysis and DNA evidence.
My post was primarily a reaction to the piling-on that was being done by Christian bloggers, which appeared 1) to want to preemptively snuff out any consideration of the program before it ever aired, and 2) to deal with the issue without any mention of what you correctly term the elephant in the room: namely, resurrection, believed in by all those who were vociferously challenging the program’s stats.
I have more to add, but it’s becoming more of a post than a comment. Anyway, thanks and God bless.
Keith
Thanks for the clarification, Keith.
Stephen: very well said. Perhaps we Christians do get abit hasty in dismissing subjects which could benefit discussion. If we truly believe God to be Sovereign then all these tidbits of controversy–if handled well–could be the open door for people who might otherwise consider it closed on any other day. I think of the groups my Christian brothers and sisters consider cults that come knocking on our doors periodically. I feel we must always be ready to speak unashamedly of our Savior to whomever and whenever. Great post, I came here via Keith Schooley.
Are you really in England? selahV
Thanks for your comments, selahV.
I have read your comments on Keith’s site, and have visitted your site too (although I am afraid that I have not commented there yet).
I am actually in Wales, which is in the UK, but not England. You can see where on this map:
Google Map showing Aberystwyth.
I am, however, going to England (London) on Monday
Thanks for stopping by.
Stephen
I too feel it is important to be well versed in the refutation of heresy. It is through these conversations that the truth of the Lord can be made manifest if the Christian in the discussion knows the facts and the reason for the hope that is within themself. We have a duty to denounce heresy, and to spread the Gospel to the lost. I can’t wait for the questioners to come my way!
Mrs. Meg Logan
Thanks for the comment. Have you been away? There hasn’t been much activity on your blog lately.
Regards,
Stephen
stephen: aw, so I need a geography lesson. I’ve always wanted to go to England. I want to go in June and stay till September, though. I can dream. I love your photograph banner. Is that in Wales? It’s serenity beckons me, “Come and sit by the still waters.” selahV
P.S. I welcome you to post a comment. I’ve got so many now, even I have a hard time keeping up with them. (the blogs–not the comments) LOL. The past few days I’ve had a devil of a time even commenting on my own website. Go figure. selahV
Thanks for the reply. I hope you do get a chance to travel to the UK. The picture is actually from Belgium, but it is a very good pictyure! (unfortunately not one of mine though).
I know what you mean about having enough time - but I’ll post a comment sometime soon on your site I’m sure.
Stephen
Dear Stephen,
One evening I was watching the news and saw that they found the tomb of Jesus. I kind of had to laugh. The reason that I laughed is that I have a much bigger story than that. I am not going to tell you what the bigger story is because it is so big that no one believes me. Yes I have been on the Internet telling all. No response. Most of these people think I am lying, nuts or just want attention. I am not a liar or crazy. We all like attention. But in this case I think after I am dead you can look at the evidence.
Happy hunting for the facts, Yours Truly, Melanie Stephan
The Big news is that Jesus talked to me. His big message was the meaning of First is Last and Last is First. God also talked about Judgment Day. Yes, it is very real. The Holy Ghost spoke of death on Earth. God spoke of birth in Heaven. Birth is Last and Last is Birth in Heaven. Now I would like some help in spreading around what God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost told me. I seem to be all alone in this and no one wants to help out. Thanks, Melanie Stephan
For Melanie Stephan.
I would like to hear more.
Stephen (Miller)
Hi, Stephen. Your the only one that wants to hear more. One night in the spring of 2006 I was having a good nights sleep and I have a very vivid Dream. It was so different and vivid that I told my family about it, which is something I never do. That is discuss my dreams with my family. Then a few days later I have another dream. This time everything in this dream comes true the next day. This dream is also very vivid. My question is how can I have a dream and have everything come true, right away, Less than 4 hours after I wake up. Then 2 days later I have another dream. Everything came true in that dream too. Right away. I am telling the people around me that this is not coincidental. And this is not a normal experience for me. AS events transpire I find out that Jesus is talking to me. I start reading parts in the bible that have to do with the dreams. Jesus sent me to Revelation first, the number 7 was the clue. Seven is all over Revelation. The names Daniel, David, Sarah, and Jacob have meaning, but I don’t know what they mean. Daniel and David are the most important names, they were in the dreams. I read that other people had dreams from God too, like Abraham. Jesus then came and spent months talking to me. He did not have a body but he was with me. OK, I will stop here cause this is too hard to explain and I realize this sounds crazy to other people that have not had this experience. I call what happened to me “The Jesus experience”. The big issue that God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost had is the meaning of First is Last as written in the book of Revelation. I think John’s dream in Revelation was a nightmare on the other hand all of my dreams were good, I felt good about them when I woke up. First is Last means that, In the morning I go to Heaven. In the afternoon I live my life. In the evening I die. First is last. Birth in Heaven is Last. I don’t know why Jesus is talking to me or why he picked this time to talk to me. I didn’t ask for this and I am not a Church person either. It is unlikely you will ever find me in Church even after the Holy Trinity dropped in on me. Thanks for your interest, Melanie Stephan
OH, one more thing about God. Most people wonder what he is like. In my experience he is just like a parent. He does not act like he is important, no one waits on him. But he is busy, like most fathers he does not spend lots of time with his children. As a parent he may give you something then if your bad he might kick you out of the house or not give you anything at all. He loves you just like your earth parents do. This is my impression of God from the first dream.
What else can you tell us?
Hi Stephan, like I said no one else wanted to know what Jesus told me. Your the only one. As I wrote yesturday Gods big issue is the meaning of First is Last. My question was why is this a big issue with God. He told me this over and over again in the dreams. I asked other people what they thought First is Last meant. Everyone has a different meaning. I asked a Russian Orthadox priest what it meant. He said the it had to do with hierarchy. I told him what God told me it meant. I am sure he thought I was wrong. He had to get away from me. I also asked him if he thought Jesus would return. He said yes. Then I said what if I told you that he was sitting right over there. He quickly said that he wouldn’t believe that. Without hesitation. I left thinking that he was not a real believer. It was just a job for him. If Jesus did return this priest and others would not believe it. Now Jesus talked to me. No one believes me. God talks to us say once every 1000 years. Why wouldn’t he speak up now. Now God does not need to talk like we do. He can just sit and watch for years. Now I have to open my mouth everyday.
OK, next subject. Jesus also talked about the presidents on the coins. The least is the greatest. Lincoln is on the least, penny. That makes Lincoln the greatest president. My thought is because he freed the black people from slavery. I also wondered how Lincoln moved a nation where so many died. Jesus did not say that war was evil but the reasons for war are evil. The rich Southerners wanted to stay rich so they went to war. Jesus mentioned Jefferson next, then Kennedy. Jesus also told me who killed JFK? He was a policeman in Dallas, Texas in 1963. I think the reason why he told me who killed JFK was to prove that he did talk to me. Then the person that shot a great man thought that he was going to get away with it. He forgot God was watching. The letters in his name are F. Ritter. Most everything else he talked about had to do with the bible. Most people had given up on who killed JFk, I had. I thought about why he told me this for a long time.
Melanie Stephan
Visiting with Jesus for months would leave you with much.
Do you have the details written down?
Thanks, Stephen
Yes Stephan, I wrote down what Jesus told me everyday at noon. I did not understand everything right away. Another thing, I had to write everything down by hand. My printer broke at the same time the messages started. I ordered parts, but they didn’t fix the problem. Then months later my printer works again. It was like God wanted it written by hand, then later after everthing was written my printer works fine. I transfered my hand writing to print. The messages all came at Gods speed too. I would have to think about what he showed me each day to figure out what he was telling me. It all came to me by the end of the day. Sometimes in the middle of the night I would get it. I would get up and right it down and go back to sleep. I didn’t want to do it. It was very hard. Then you cant’ say ‘No’ to the divine. Someday I might want something from God and he will come back at me and say “No”. He would say something like ‘Didn’t I ask you to do something for me, and your answer was?” Now I asked other people to help me figure out the messages Jesus was showing me. They all said ‘No’, get medical help. Anyway it was a mistake asking for help. Jesus also gave me a Key, that meant I was the only one that could figure out his messages. He gave me other objects too. The Key was an important message. It had mulitpule meanings. AS Key encription, 7 Keys on the musical scale, and Key to the Gate. It also means that when you die and you don’t have a Key to leave, you are trapped. Then if you don’t have a Key and no one comes for you, you are double trapped. After the dreams the messages started with the meaning of the Numbers. The First number was 3. Melanie Stephan
Now I have a question for you Stephan. No one else has had any interest in what God and Jesus told me. Why have you shown interest? Lots of people have said very mean things to me. Some have been polite but they seriously doubt what I am saying is true. Now I do have proof. The people around me say it is all coincidental. Now Jesus told me that everything has meaning. That means that nothing is coincidental. That means that everything in the dream and everything he showed me has meaning. Everything has meaning right down to the very last detail. And it has more than one meaning.
I almost forgot my question. Why have you shown interest? Melanie Stephan
This looks suspiciously like a comments hijack. I am sorry, but this Stephen Miller has never posted here before, and now appears just to be asking leading questions to allow Melanie to continue to talk. I am sorry, but I am now closing comments on this post.